I decided to start this post rather than hijack a post Cliff recently started:
http://www.activemodules.com/active...community/

Although along the same subject line, my thoughts are a bit more broad.

One thing I don't think anyone has ever really talked about is a central repository for each user.

Ideally, it makes sense for the DNN Core to have the functionality to create a user folder under the portal instance (similar to how AS does it now, along with every other Freaking Module Vendor out there), then:

1. Have user sub-directories for: photos, documents, videos, templates, etc.
2. Give those folders access to 3rd party modules.
3. Allow 3rd party modules access to those directories and tie in the AS journal security when journal posting.
4. The user then has one central location for all files site-wide, rather than per module.
5. Also very ideal for use with HTML Editors such as FCK or Telerik for re-use of images, videos and files.
6. Utilize the current DNN file manager and allow users to access their own files from one location.

File permissions get changed or updated through the file manager, same with deletion, etc. Anything that was previously fed to the journal either gets the whole journal entry updated with the new permissions through file manager, and if the file gets deleted, then so does the journal entry. If a file is being removed or permissions updated that is being used in a 3rd party module outside the journal, then the file manager can detect other file instances and advise the user before the changes. If the user persists, then Modules can be intuitive enough to throw up a "No photo Avail" or a "No video, but here's an ad" or "No file to download, but here's a site brochure".

I know, going a little overboard, but I can wish can't I?

In my opinion, AS, nor any other module should really be the repository, including AF, Blogs, etc. But they should all be given access to a DNN Core supported user repository. (That also has access to Amazon S3 I'm dreaming).

Has this ever really been talked about at the Core?
Should I take up a post over there?
Anyone else's thoughts?

Hi Jeff,
Actually the core does support user files, but the API hasn't really been leveraged by third-party module developers. This is also a fairly new capability so it does require DotNetNuke 5.x. One reason I haven't jumped in to the various gallery discussions is because there is a much bigger picture that needs to be considered. I love to see posts like this because it highlights some of the larger concepts we have to consider. As I alluded to in Cliif's post, I'm just waiting to work a few more things out before I post about what's next for Active Social and DotNetNuke.

This concept is great and is something I've thought about a lot as well. I don't want my users to have to upload an image to their AS gallery and then upload the same image again if they want to include it in a Ventrian NA blog. I've been thinking along the lines though of hoping the module developers would make the storage path configurable, but it would be a much better idea to make it part of the core. I would love to see that happen.

That way also, I could use multiple modules in the best combination possible for me. For example, if all modules only have only one path, I might choose to use one media module for upload of media, another for management of media, another for display of top media, another for media search, and on and on.

Here is the Repository module in Core DNN. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Community...fault.aspx

I know they are about to make a major release for this. Is there any way it could be leveraged? I know Steve F worked on this module and finally donated it to the core. I have never used it, so I am not sure what it can really do.

@Will, thanks for chiming in and can't wait to hear what direction you see things going.

 

Very interesting. I actually have seen some new directories created under the portals directory for users. Now, how to get developers to leverage it!


By 3rd party developers leveraging this along with the new features of DNN 5.x, I think there could be a working path towards the future and yet keep backwards compatability, along with including the option for migration.

One of the challenges we have always had with Active Social is that DNN has been very content centric. In order to leverage social capabilities you also need to be user centric. Part of our integration effort will revolve around making DNN more user centric. This includes user content, relationships, security and profiles. If you have ever used a product like DropBox, SkyDrive, MobileMe, etc. you will have a pretty good idea of what I think DNN should handle user files. DNN should be the file system and modules should simply provide views to that content. Modules shouldn't have to handle upload, permissions and retrieval. Now, that isn't an official DNN position, just my opinion and something I would like to see happen.

Personally, I never wanted to add a gallery to AS. We had to do this since no other gallery module supported user galleries at the time.

This a great post. I agree the scope is larger than media. I will say however that the absolute KEY point here is that the process be easy and intuitive for users. Currently, Simple Gallery works because the upload wizard makes sense. Uploading images to an AF forum post affords great flexibility and creates a "user library" but it's confusing for users who expect to click an upload image button and voila...it's in the post.  The result is no one knows how to upload a photo, so they don't which re-inforces to other users that they can't either.

As an Admin I'm always trying to reduce interfaces and user training....and honestly the idea of dropping the core repository module on a user base scares the crap out of me.   You would be surprised how I've twisted modules like Property Agent, to establish one interface for many user sources content operations. I know others have found solutions in XMod and others to accomplish the same, but it's a TON of work and overhead for technical Admins.  If you're not a technical admin then your in trouble.

That said, if the core API allows module developers to hook into an existing, consistent, easy to use and natural process flow then I'm all for it. Now, I haven't seen an updated version of repository but I long for the day when I don't have to "bend" and "hammer" modules to work inside my sites. Add in options for external storage like S3 and it's a winner.

But I'l say this...just because there is a centralized technical solution available in the core doesn't mean users will adopt it (especially in an SN environment). Good UI/UX will always win over outstanding technical solutions.

Posted By Steven Webster on 15 Mar 2011 11:56 PM
This a great post. I agree the scope is larger than media. I will say however that the absolute KEY point here is that the process be easy and intuitive for users.

You would be surprised how I've twisted modules like Property Agent, to establish one interface for many user sources content operations. I know others have found solutions in XMod and others to accomplish the same, but it's a TON of work and overhead for technical Admins.  If you're not a technical admin then your in trouble.

But I'l say this...just because there is a centralized technical solution available in the core doesn't mean users will adopt it (especially in an SN environment). Good UI/UX will always win over outstanding technical solutions.

Very good synopsis Steven. I am one of those technical Admins who leveraged XMod extensively for many years. I even considered developing a SN solution in XMod, but we had the promise of Cambrian from DNN so I waited... that never materialized. Then DNN Fusion came along and I tested it quite a bit. But when Active Modules snapped up their IP and got involved in building AS I thought we would finally get to where my vision lies. And we are close. But for me close is not quite good enough. And honestly I now feel very stuck... again. Sorry for the semi-rant.

I posted a comment on Scott's blog at Ventrian regarding the Simple Gallery enhancements. He hasn't approved my post yet. I think he is someone who has the knowledge and the requisite experience to really get some of this done. At least to build a bridge for now and make AS usable from a media perspective. Then when the AS / DNN Core migration / integration takes place he should be ahead of the pack in module integration.

I am still pounding away on my product (site) launch plan. There is always work to do. So I am focusing on that until I hear some solid info from Will on the path forward...hopefully soon.

With regards to each user having their own folder DNN does this now via the Telerik RAD editor.

If you use Telerik's provider instead of DNN's there is an option to allow each user their own folder per each "manager". i.e. Photo manager, document manager, etc. RAD will auto create a new folder for each new user.

Not sure if the community member (can't remember who is was) built provider on codeplex that is slated to become the DNN provider will do this or not. I'm guessing it will.

Not sure if this could be a work around until a better core solution arrives??

Greg, that is correct, but the telerik provider is using the core api for user folders. I've been doing some research on this and I really think we have been overlooking a pretty good solution that is right in front of us.

The problem I still see is that there really isn't a good way for the user to manage their own folders. This is where the telerik provider really makes a difference. It would be nice to have a My Files module that leverages this API and could be used on a profile.

Yes, a module to allow users to mange their folders would be nice and definitely the best way to go.

However, some short term workarounds might be possible should you want to explore the RAD editor solution to user folders. Since the folder naming convention that RAD uses is easy and known I'm thinking this module (which is pretty cool) will do what we need: http://www.snowcovered.com/Snowcove...geID=17711 It's token replacement feature for folder paths will match up to RAD's.

The downside to those workarounds is since it will be RAD creating the folder - if a user attempts to manager their folder before they use RAD to create one it will fail since there is no folder yet. Although I think if we look closer at the above module we might be able to create the folder in either place. The other downside that might impact many of us is the lack of Amzaon S3 integration - any ideas on that one?

Just checked and the module I mentioned above will also create user folders so I guess you could use it INSTEAD of as well as in addition to RAD.

Can you provide details on how to configure RAD editor to use individual folders? When I was looking a little while ago, I didn't think it was possible. I ended up choosing DNNCKeditor provider which does allow it and also allows custom configuration per editor instance. I'm still not 100% pleased with it though, so if I could try RAD editor again I would.

This is the one that will be incorporated into the core eventually:
http://radeditor.codeplex.com/

I've messed around with the current radeditor (outside dnnWerk) and have noticed that it does create the folders for each user. The one problem I saw with this was that a user could also have access to other user files. I'm still in process of testing. I think this is also plays a part with setting up folder permissions under the DNN file manager. The other issue is that it's confined to the radeditor. Other module vendors need to tap into it to make it an ideal solution.

For instance: When using forums, blog modules, etc. if you setup each module to use the same editor, this is ideal because the user has a pool of their own files to access. However when using modules such as UMG or Ventrian Simple Gallery, they create their own directories for user files, as does AS.

I haven't used the dnnWerk editor myself, but have read up on it, and I do believe once it's integrated into the core, it will help bridge the gap for modules that use an online editor. There also probably be some problems with Windows Live Writer in this arena that will need worked out.

I am still also really hoping for S3 implimentation on user files.

@TotalGolf First, the RAD editor provider that ships with DNN won't do this. Next, we need to determine if the provider available on codeplex (http://radeditor.codeplex.com/) which was built by Philipp Becker (thanks again Philipp!) will do user folders since it is going to replace the core provider. Or at least the last I heard it was. If it will then that is the way to go and Philipp made it super simple to install / configure.

The other option is to use the provider that Telerik built (for use with it's DNN trial module of RAD Editor). That provider will allow you turn user folders on across all managers. Managers being the Image, templates, document, media, etc. managers built into the editor. Downside is that user folders are either on for all managers or off for all managers but I have some code that you can replace in the provider to allow some managers to use user folders and some managers to use public folders.

Posted By Greg Brown on 17 Mar 2011 01:03 PM
I'm thinking this module (which is pretty cool) will do what we need: http://www.snowcovered.com/Snowcove...geID=17711 It's token replacement feature for folder paths will match up to RAD's.

The other downside that might impact many of us is the lack of Amzaon S3 integration - any ideas on that one?

@Greg thanks so much for looking for available solutions / workarounds or whatever we might call them. It is good to see the community coming together with a possible solution for the near term. As for the module you mentioned, I have not used it. But I have worked with several of Dao's modules and he provides good support and is open to feedback and enhancements. You can see that he has been in the DNN Community for quite a number of years now. Even though he is in Vietnam, we did some GoToMyPC meetings where he taught me some stuff related to his modules. So I am sure he would be open to discussing the S3 integration as well as any other necessary enhancements.

Greg,

Can you elaborate a bit more on how you've accomplished this? I've used both the current RadEditor, and I've just now tested out the one developed by Phillip. Neither utilize user folders that I'm aware of. On first run, the current RadEditor that is packaged with DNN 5.x will create user folders but is not limited to only the folders for that user. All users have access to each other's folders. The other one from dnnWerk (Phillip) is a bit more robust given the fact that multiple configurations can be created, but still has the same issue with user folders. I've also noticed this on the DNN site itself. You can create a post on DNN and have access to all sorts of folders in the portal instance.

A very simple solution for both providers would simply be to recognize [DNN:USERINFO:USERID] when it's placed in the xml files, similar to how portalroot and skinpath are recognized.

UPDATE:

After further testing, I can confirm the dnnWerk RadEditor works the same as the current DNN RadEditor when they create user folders.

I'm not sure if this is a requirement. I seem to remember the DNN RadEditor worked without this, but you can add EnableUploadUserFolders="True" to either of the HTML providers found in your web.config.

DNN RadEditor:
1. Declare your own config file in web.config: configFile="~/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/Telerik/Config/MyConfig.xml"
2. You can also declare your own tools file: toolsFile="~/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/Telerik/Config/MyTools.xml"
3. Navigate to (or create): Providers > HTMLEditorProviders > Telerik > Config > MyConfig.xml
4. Add [PortalRoot]Users to all your view paths for images, documents, flash, etc.

dnnWerk RadEditor:
Very similar process, you just need to add /Users to any of your viewpaths.

Keep in mind the folder path is case sensitive. So, if you have a folder that has upper and lowercase letters, it needs to match. This solution does work but is limited in the fact that individual folders cannot be created such as documents, images, etc. Also, with each provider the folder structure created (on the fly) for users will be: Users/002/02/2. The 2 being the userid. You may also want to double check folder permissions under the DNN file manager.

This is done in your new "MyConfig.xml" file

Sorry, couldn't edit and update my post.

It's only been a few months since the last post here, but I'm back to reassess and see if others have come up with any other possible solutions to management of user documents.

I've resorted to strictly using radeditor in all my module instances where possible and creating portal folders for different files such as images, documents, etc. But it's still a very limited solution that is not user centric.

For instance. Take AF. It allows attachments, image uploads, etc. all in their own controls. I've turned off all those features in attempt to centralize all user files and remain uniform across my site with the html editor. I hope to train my users only once. But, again, we have to deal with limitations.

@Jeff - As I mentioned in this thread, I am going to take a stab at building out some user-centric storage / display capabilities in XMod Pro. Will Sugg seems to have made some progress in this area already.

http://www.activemodules.com/active...ity/#71131

Are you familiar with XMP? If so is there a reason you wouldn't use it to build out user-based upload, storage and display capabilities? I know from previous experience that XMod is terribly powerful once you dig into it. Now with XMod Pro you have the ability to use standard db table storage in conjunction with XMod forms and templates. XMP is at version 3 and is pretty mature from what I can tell.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this if you have any. Even if they are not XMP specific, a more detailed discussion of use cases and overall architecture of user-based data management would be helpful. My first goal is to just get something simple working and then start to work on a structured plan.

I know it's been around for a long time. I've always been curious about it but have never taken the jump. Is there a steep learning curve? I'm not a coder by any means, but I catch on fairly easily.

I was amazed at how much I was able to accomplish with XMod the first several years I was into DNN. I am not a real programmer either, but using the tag-based language with all the extra hooks it has made it such a powerful tool. The learning curve shouldn't be steep for you. But that is also why I am getting DNNDev to work with me to get things setup and running quickly on my site.

I want to work directly with them since they know the current capabilities of XMP and can hopefully see the opportunity at hand and be willing to work on some additional views. For instance they added in a slideshow viewer for XMP data a few releases back.

What I really want is the ability to have a button on directly on the member or group journal tools that launches and the XMP upload capabilities. As opposed to having to have an Upload button on the XMP profile tab like Will S has done. I know that has to be possible.

Let's figure out how we can at least collaborate on some of the requirements to make sure we get a good baseline of functionality on the first try. Then we can build on that over time.

I think if you take a quick look at the Sample Solutions with XMP here you will see how versatile this tool can be now that it has direct db access.
http://dnndev.com/Support/Knowledge...fault.aspx

There is pretty good documentation on the tag set here.
http://dnndev.com/help/xmod/default.htm