On the forum we have been answered to one of our questions past month:
http://www.activemodules.com/active...nd-removal

Interzoic asked: We need to know if there is a way we can force group enrollment via a role, and also get drop group enrollment if the role is removed?

AS answered us on forum: >No, this is not possible. We have not added this capability due to the limitation in DotNetNuke with the number of roles to which a user can belong.

We need the functionality to add or drop users from AS groups depending on their general DNN role.
For example, a user buys DNN Role using Catalook eCommerce to access a Group for a limited period of time.
Currently the AS group option of “Linked Roles” to a group don’t cover our needs.

Questions: - what is the limit of roles/user? Can this capability be enabled in AS for sites with a low number of roles?
- is there any other way to realize this functionality? What options do we have?
Could you provide this functionality on next AS release?

The possibility to provide being enrolled when joining a group to be handled based on a DNN role: if you add the role to a user belongs to a group, if you drop or expire the role the user is dropped from a group.

This adds much more potential to the Active Social module to be integrated to work with 3d party modules like Catalook ecommerce, as the example we’ve mentioned above.

Thanks in advance,

Javier Esteller

It varies based upon the name of the roles and quantity. We have seen problems start with as few as 20 roles, but in most cases it will be somewhere around 40-60.

The feature still exists today, but is optional. The only problem that you have is that the user is still listed as member, but they will not have access the forums. You could create a scheduled process that would remove users from a group that have expired access to the group member role. However, having a group membership based completely on a role isn't possible or something we see as a long-term benefit at this time.

I understand the use case and we will be offering additional options with the upcoming release of Active Purchase. At the same time, we will offer additional API options for Active Social which will provide other 3rd-party e-commerce modules similar options that you will see in Active Purchase.

How is this feature activated? I have a small number ofroles and I can live with the script for cleanup.

Hi Will,

We can live with scripts as well. Any solutions to our use case would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris

Posted By Larry on 25 Oct 2010 06:59 PM

The feature still exists today, but is optional. The only problem that you have is that the user is still listed as member, but they will not have access the forums. You could create a scheduled process that would remove users from a group that have expired access to the group member role. However, having a group membership based completely on a role isn't possible or something we see as a long-term benefit at this time.

How is this feature activated? I have a small number ofroles and I can live with the script for cleanup.

Larry,

We don't have any scripts at this time. Our current strategy is what I explained earlier.

We won't be offering any other options until after the release of Active Purchase.

Hello Will,

There are other mechanisms, other than eCommerce, to award and withdraw roles. A good example is that roles can expire - via native DNN processes. How will this be supported?

Basically we need access to groups to be directly coupled with role assignment. If there is not a direct way, will there be an indirect way once Active Purchase is released?

Do you have an estimation of the Date when you could be offering additional options?



Thanks in advance.

Hi Will,

Interzoic Media makes and markets a Learning Management System.
http://www.interzoic.com/products/accord-lms

We would like to better integrate Active Social with our LMS. The better the integration, the better the sales for your product.

Our LMS assigns Learning content access via roles, and removes content access via roles as well.

We need a way to add and drop AS Group membership in synchronization with Learning content access. Ideally this would be based on the same role that we assign or drop a associated with our content access. Is this possible? If not, is there another method or an API that we could use? Could you provide some guidance and examples?

We have posted to the forums and have been trying to find a solution to our requirements for a few months. My clients are getting impatient. Please help me.

How can I easily add and drop Group membership?

Thanks,
Chris

Hi Chris,
I appreciate your persistence, but our strategy still remains the same as I've mentioned previously.

It seems to me (and excuse my butting in, feel free to slap me down) that given the AS api, Interzoic can manage this from within their own software.

eg. http://www.activemodules.com/active...b-service/

So then it's just a call to add the user to a DNN role, and a call to add them to an AS group.
On removal, the reverse is performed.

I can understand that from Will's point of view, he doesn't want to risk exceeding DNN limitations with native AS functionality. Nonetheless, it seems to me that the capability has already been provided to manage AS groups, and that this could form the basis for a reasonable compromise. The caveat being, of course, that Interzoic take on the responsibility of monitoring for DNN limitations.

Hi Will,

Could you throw me a few more crumbs to help stave off my hungry clients?

- Would Matt's suggestion work - programmatically using the Membership Web Service?
- Will the new API offer superior options, for what I need to do, over the Membership Web Service?
- Would you allow Interzoic to beta test this API in our application? We'll sign an NDA, etc.

You've got a great product, but as the roles that regulate Learner's access to the Content Catalog folders are removed or expire, this is not reflected in their AS group membership. This is causing a major functional disconnect in our "integration" with AS and telling my client's "maybe this year, maybe next" is not holding water any more. Please help us, it's in your interest as well.

- When can I tell my clients that our LMS and your AS will really be integrated?

We've got a top notch programming team and will provide user testing at no cost ;-)

Thanks,
Chris

Why not give it a try? I am pretty positive the Membership Web Service is a workable and easy solution.

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the encouragement.

This is long term commitment for us, and we want to do things the best/right way from the start. There are many considerations - for example role expiration. In our LMS, if the access role (for a specific user) is active, then all the links to launch the associated content are active. If the role is expired (or not started yet) then the links are visible but disabled. The status is simply read from the role table by SQL procs at run time when the Learner want's to view their content catalog.

How do we do this to manage AS Groups? Do we create a scheduled task that checks the Start/Active/Expiry date of each role for each user and then either add them or drop them from a group? How often should we run this? Some clients have 80,000 Learners. Etc.

Some communication/guidance from AM would be of great value to us, allow us to schedule development and also allow us to manage our client's expectations - we've had to tell them maybe this year, maybe next for the last 3 months. It's in AM interest, since we are trying to integrate/sell their product.

Mystified in Boise

Realistically, a scheduled task would be valid, and I would think a default time of 24 hours would be more than reasonable. Could be adjusted up if needed. I suspect it doesn't need to go user by user, either - just find exceptions to the start and expiry dates.

Alternatively, there's no reason you can't do a similar kind of check at login or simply as a result of the SQL proc - if the role is expired, your code simply removes them from the group.

I'd suggest that if you do a modular component for Active Social integration, this would leave you free to add other integration as well, and to modify it should anything change in the future. It's clear from what Will's said before, though, that the existing API is a long-term committment which will only be expanded over time.

I think it's probably important to at least prototype this approach before you go further - if it's workable, then you could of course ask Will for specific technical details. At the moment though, it's a tad open ended and I think that's where the challenge arises. Looking from an AM perspective, I can see the potential support considerations alone and understand why it wouldn't be easy to jump in with both feet. You can probably identify with this from your own customer experiences, to some extent. Nonetheless, I've seen AM actively helping 3rd party developers that are working with the published API's, because they have defined outcomes and demonstrable results.

If you prototype the API approach and find it unworkable, you can of course wait for the Active Purchase features as mentioned by Will. However at worst case if you were to start development and then find Active Purchase to have some desirable components, you're not going to be starting all over again - probably just a matter of a couple of minor tweaks, given the consistency of Will's approach.

All good suggestions Matt.

> check at login or simply as a result of the SQL proc - if the role is expired, your code simply removes them from the group.
We would check if the role is active (if yes add Group membership, if not drop Group membership) since we need to handle both Effective and Expiry dates.  

Without any comment from AM (either on forum or private) we may need to forge ahead since we have already strung some clients along for a couple of months. However, it sure would be nice to know/use what AM will be delivering instead of re-inventing the wheel. We are already maxed out with internal development.

Thanks Matt,
Chris

Hi Will,

Would you please let usknow if Matt's suggestions are the best approach we should take?  This will be a consequential investment for my team and our product.  I would really appreciate some guidance on this.

Thanks,
Chris

Group membership information is stored in one table. If I needed to build a solution as you described I would create a scheduled task to perform any custom business logic I needed. While I could use the API, for something this simple I would just change the table directly. Sounds like you want to look at the roles that are assigned to a particular, find members that have expired, then remove them from the role and group. With this approach you wouldn't be dependent on our API or waiting for us implement a particular feature.

Thanks Will.

I appreciate the pointer.

Chris

I'm adding to this topic to see if anyone has made any progress or figured out the best way to accomplish this.  I have an almost identical use case.  If someone buys a product, they are added to a role.  There is already an AS group set up where the community can discuss that specific product.  I'd like to get the user added to that group automatically based on the role.  Any feedback would be appreciated.