Will Morgenweck
Forum Admin
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:7671
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| 11 Jan 2012 03:20 PM |
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What I predicted is that you will not get all the functionality of AS in the Community Edition. By that I mean all the possible features and options that currently exist in AS at the time of it's release and at all times during it's development cycle, not just what is present in AS as of today.
Feel free to correct me if I am I wrong. That's a ridiculous prediction. That's like saying you predict Windows 8 will be different than Windows 7, or that Windows 8 Premium will have different capabilities than Windows 8 Home. Of course, there will be differences, just as there will continually be different needs for end users. Everyone knows today that there are 3 different packages of DotNetNuke and that each package has different capabilities. Is there a possibility that some social type capability is added in the future to DotNetNuke PRO and not Community? Of course that is a possibility. Do we have anything identified at this point for 2012? No, everything we have planned around social for 2012 is for Community Edition. What many people don't understand is that the Active Social Module will not exist in 6.2. Our goal has always been to make the integration seamless. DotNetNuke will have fully integrated social capabilities. It won't be something that's an add on, it will be a first class citizen. Sure, you will still have some modules you can configure and customize, but it will be streamlined and intuitive. It won't be something special to install...it will just work. |
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Will Morgenweck
Director of Product Management
DotNetNuke Corp.
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Will Morgenweck
Forum Admin
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:7671
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| 11 Jan 2012 03:21 PM |
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@Patrick: Excellent idea and already part of the feature scope for 6.2. |
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Will Morgenweck
Director of Product Management
DotNetNuke Corp.
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 03:38 PM |
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Posted By Will Morgenweck on 11 Jan 2012 04:20 PM
What many people don't understand is that the Active Social Module will not exist in 6.2.
No, trust me on this. I understood this perfectly all this time.  That's exactly what I am referring to. If you want all the social media features and options that were either part of AS, or were promised/conceived of for future versions, you will end up having to buy the enterprise or other commercial versions of DNN. This will cost thousands of dollars a year, unlike the few hundred dollars it used to cost just for AS module. That is the reason I stopped using AS, because I didn't want to have to spend thousands of dollars each year to continue to develop a social media site. |
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Will Morgenweck
Forum Admin
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:7671
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| 11 Jan 2012 03:50 PM |
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That's exactly what I am referring to. If you want all the social media features and options that were either part of AS, or were promised/conceived of for future versions, you will end up having to buy the enterprise or other commercial versions of DNN.
This will cost thousands of dollars a year, unlike the few hundred dollars it used to cost just for AS module.
That is the reason I stopped using AS, because I didn't want to have to spend thousands of dollars each year to continue to develop a social media site. Again, you are wrong. As I stated before, we have yet to identify ANYTHING that will be PRO specific related to social integration. We have planned out 6.2 and 6.3 for 2012 and all social capabilities have been identified for CE. This includes current AS capabilities and other new features. Just like I stated in my previous post, of course there is a possibility for something to be PRO specific, but not a single feature or idea for social collaboration has been held out specifically for PRO. |
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Will Morgenweck
Director of Product Management
DotNetNuke Corp.
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 03:57 PM |
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Will, with all due respect, why do you keep pretending that the obvious isn't going to happen? Maybe it won't happen this year, but it will the next. It's self evident, you have a free version and a commercial version. How do you get people to pay for the commercial version? By offering them premium features that are not available in the free one. |
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 04:15 PM |
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One more thing. From a business perspective it makes perfect sense to do it in this way. You want to get as many people using AS features as possible in the beginning, then when you introduce new premium features later on you are likely to get a much higher conversion rate than if you started differentiating from the get go. If you did that then some people might choose to start their site with different software.
I didn't want to be in that situation where I would be forced to make a choice later on, either start from scratch again, or pay for the commercial versions to get all the features I need. |
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Will Morgenweck
Forum Admin
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:7671
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| 11 Jan 2012 04:16 PM |
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Maybe you missed the comments in my previous posts... Is there a possibility that some social type capability is added in the future to DotNetNuke PRO and not Community? Of course that is a possibility. Do we have anything identified at this point for 2012? No, everything we have planned around social for 2012 is for Community Edition. Just like I stated in my previous post, of course there is a possibility for something to be PRO specific, but not a single feature or idea for social collaboration has been held out specifically for PRO. Maybe I need to phrase it differently. Are you expecting me to say that every possible social feature will always be in Community? Of course, I can't make that commitment. That would just be foolish. Like I said previously, we have 3 different products and we will continue enhance each product to match the needs of intended users. BUT, at this time, for 6.2 and 6.3, all social aspects have been identified for Community. We could come up with a new feature for 6.3 that ends up in PE, but all I can say is that nothing has been identified yet. |
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Will Morgenweck
Director of Product Management
DotNetNuke Corp.
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 05:09 PM |
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Will, it would be foolish of you to make that commitment. By the same token, it would be equally foolish of people to not realize that at some point in time, due to their need for a certain AS type premium feature, they may have to upgrade to a commercial version of DNN.
That's all I'm saying and always have been saying... |
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Patrick
Registered Users
Post Count:87
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| 11 Jan 2012 06:18 PM |
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Posted By YodaRocks on 11 Jan 2012 12:28 PM
Patrick, I really appreciate your thoughtful contribution to the dialog. For me, the challenge isn't with DotNetNuke, but rather what I can do with it in terms of social networking. It is here that I look at WordPress, with its multi-developer BuddyPress project, and think, gee, I can't do most of that on DotNetNuke because the core does not have such functions, and the available commercial modules don't either. In fact, WordPress has such a rich array of plugins relating to social networking functionality that it is difficult even to know where to start!
Since I have staked my business on social networking, it's terribly important that whatever platform I use, I have the capability of moving the social networking functions forward so that they are at least on a par with what the major sites out there can and are doing (LinkedIn and Facebook come to mind). I also want to see the DotNetNuke developer community given an early opportunity to build modules to dramatically extend the functionality of Active Social-centered social networking on the DotNetNuke platform -- in my view, this is the best way give us a rich array of options in setting up social networking on our sites. For that reason I'm anxious for the day when the code is released to the community, which would also help those of us who would want to create custom solutions around Active Social (if that's what it will be called).
I will definitely do everything I can to support future development of social networking on the DotNetNuke platform, so I hope that my comments are taken in the spirit offered -- to make things better for all of us.
Yoda,
Would you mind making a list of the features that you find compelling that are currently absent within DNN or DNN 3rd party extensions? I'm aware that AM team is discussing which features to append to the current feature set.
Have a good night,
Patrick
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Stephen Nill
Customers
Post Count:152
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| 11 Jan 2012 07:00 PM |
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Patrick, yes, I would be more than willing to do that. I'll try to carve out this weekend to get started, so give me a few days to do this right. I invite you and anyone else interested in social networking via DotNetNuke to consider doing the same.
Steve |
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Jeff Blanks
Customers
Post Count:386
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| 11 Jan 2012 09:32 PM |
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I can't afford DNN Pro and probably never will. But I am aware Pro exists to create revenue. With that in mind, there will always be features in Pro that CE will not have. I believe this especially to be true when it concerns things such as admin capabilities, workflow, webfarm support, and recently smartphone/mobile capabilities.
The other thing I've noticed, is that, although not as often as could be expected, there are some Pro features that get ported into CE. I hope and believe as DNN still continues to grow, more features will be ported to CE.
But the problem that has always come up in the DNN community for added features in CE is if DNN is stepping on the toes of the very ecosystem that helped DNN become what it is today. But regardless, the whole community that buys modules such as myself wants ALL features available in DNN CE for FREE! It's just not going to happen.
With all that said, with some bumps in the road, DNN has been able to provide specific features to DNN Pro users that can also be found through other DNN module vendors. DNN has also done a fairly good job in making sure that although some features are in Pro, the api is still available in CE to build off of. That in itself says a lot about a corporation that is "for profit".
For AS, I'm EXTREMELY frustrated. I've done a ton of customization, and have made my investment into it like several others. I've built my whole website around it. I'm confident that the current feature set will be in a future DNN release along with new features being added to CE for social capabilities. Because it is going to be baked in, it will be available to all module vendors and creators and can be enhanced, extended, etc. I'm also hopeful that as a CE user, if DNN places specific features in Pro and not available to CE, when it comes to the buzz word social, that they listen before they lose users. Iif the user can migrate to another CMS with those capabilities for free, I'm sure they would if it's mission critical.
I'm sure there could be a lot of arguments to my points, and I'm not defending DNN corps by any means. There's been several times in the past that I was fuming with some of the decisions made. They've had their problems in the past and they are aware of their users, and they have to listen if they want to continue to grow. And they are aware they can't complete that mission without a thriving CE community. The CE users are the Evangelists of DNN for better or for worse.
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Cheers! Jeff
@northeastok | @jeffblanks | My Blog |
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 10:27 PM |
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That in itself says a lot about a corporation that is "for profit". I don't have the same warm and fuzzy feeling that you do. I spent a ton on money through Snowcovered on modules. I also supported AS in the beginning by purchasing a license etc. I never used the license because I was waiting for certain features to be implemented. When AS got acquired I decided that I no longer want to use it due to the very real possibility of having to buy a pro license in the future which was a lot more than I had budgeted for. I therefore asked for a refund on my unused license. Which BTW never resulted in me using any of tech supports time. All I did was post on this forum so there was no cost in my case. I was refused the request, even though the unused license could easily have been resold and the few hundred bucks was worth more to me than to DNN corp. Based on my personal experience I believe profit does come first with them. |
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Will Morgenweck
Forum Admin
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:7671
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| 11 Jan 2012 10:45 PM |
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You wanted a refund for a license purchase that was nearly 2 years old. Our refund policy has always been very clear.
I'll keep this post unlocked until the morning, but if it continues to be about Silver Surfer's predictions and personal agenda then it's getting locked. I have no problem with the WordPress or feature set discussions and hope those continue, but that may have to be done in another thread.
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Will Morgenweck
Director of Product Management
DotNetNuke Corp.
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 12 Jan 2012 12:11 AM |
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Will, the license was unused. At the time I bought it were were never informed that DNN would one day own the software. Of course you can use some refund policy as an excuse for not giving me a refund, but lets face it, what did it cost you to provide me with a license? Nothing, because I never used any of your resources.
If DNN corp was not money-oriented they could have easily made an offer to anyone with an unused license who was not happy to get a refund. It would have been a nice goodwill gesture to those who helped support your product. Let's be honest, the DNN acquisition of AS has slowed the release of features for people who bought it. I guess there is no policy protecting their interests, is there?
Don't blame me for this thread, that's a poor excuse too. It was created by your other unhappy customers who feel like they got the short end of the stick. I only posted here because I wanted to help some other people who are on the fence right now about what to do.
This thread was created as a complaint thread, not as a thread looking for more customer input.
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 12 Jan 2012 12:31 AM |
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Another thing I need to add. It seems like you are quite happy to point out how long ago I bought the license. Are you equally happy to point out how long it's been since there was a major upgrade in AS that people are able to use today? Or how long it's been where some things still don't function correctly?
I waited on using the license on a live site because I felt that the product was not 100% complete. I guess that's my fault too....
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Patrick
Registered Users
Post Count:87
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| 12 Jan 2012 06:52 AM |
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Posted By SilverSurfer on 12 Jan 2012 01:11 AM
Will, the license was unused. At the time I bought it were were never informed that DNN would one day own the software. Of course you can use some refund policy as an excuse for not giving me a refund, but lets face it, what did it cost you to provide me with a license? Nothing, because I never used any of your resources.
If DNN corp was not money-oriented they could have easily made an offer to anyone with an unused license who was not happy to get a refund. It would have been a nice goodwill gesture to those who helped support your product. Let's be honest, the DNN acquisition of AS has slowed the release of features for people who bought it. I guess there is no policy protecting their interests, is there?
Don't blame me for this thread, that's a poor excuse too. It was created by your other unhappy customers who feel like they got the short end of the stick. I only posted here because I wanted to help some other people who are on the fence right now about what to do.
This thread was created as a complaint thread, not as a thread looking for more customer input.
That's not fair. I operate 3 businesses and one thing that I've learned is that a business plan never seems to go as mapped out. When you try to return software to Walmart two years later under the basis that you didn't use it brings complications. Corporations can only go so far when dealing with personal situations. Without a clear policy in place they would be walked on profusely. What does it cost Walmart to provide you with an xBox game? Pennies.. regardless, it's policy. I've learned that you have to walk a fairy careful line when trying to appease customers, because what you do for one you have to do for all, and although you might be a legitimate case of an unused license, 500 other people might be F-O-S. I've seen several developers shut their doors from trying to appease customers and end up spending all their time on support that is truly the end-users fault. I've also seen other companies like Data Springs hold their ground and say NO.. and look at how successful they are. I've spent piles of money on DNN modules. I can screenshot my Snowcovered account to prove it. There are multiple modules that I purchased professional editions of later to find out they offer them in the basic version.. one of which is bizmodules new releases. Oh well! Such is life.. I've made several purchases and never used them because my business turned in an unexpected direction.. Oh well again. I've asked for refunds.. some I got, some I didn't. Fuming over it produces nothing positive.
In regards to your other point about no substantial upgrades, this is a good point. You paid for a license, looking for a roadmap, and unfortunately you ran out of road quicker than expected. But man look.. they're building a bigger and better road! I hope so anyway.
When I purchased Enterprise for $5,000, I didn't even use the Content Staging for like.. almost a year. My plan didn't come to fruition. I asked DNN Corp if they could take this into consideration, and many aspects they did.. mainly being patient with me because I ran out of money (*again) but in all fairness I bought it.. it isn't their fault I didn't use it. David Hoag and several others at DNN Corp were overly patient, empathetic, and worked with me on all levels.. they've been good to me.
I think a fair and legitimate request would be as follows, and if approached correctly, it's quite possible DNN might be willing to do something:
For people who purchased a license, WHEN there are features that are only available in an Enterprise Version perhaps their current license could be extended to make up for the long stride they've endured. I think it's only fair that DNN Corp does something for those who didn't get what they should have. They should do everything within a fair boundaries of capabilities to keep their customers happy. People are justified in their complaints for the most part, and for the most part have expressed a high level of patience and understanding, mostly because they realize business never goes as initially planned. There should be a grandfathering in of some sort. I think this is legitimate and fair.
@GoBlanks
You're right. I have to remind myself frequently about what DNN HAS done. I defend DNN often simply because their platform is a big reason for my success. They might get cranky, or arrogant at times.. probably due to overloads of stress.. but I've built a multimedia company around the DNN framework and my clients LOVE IT! Also, until recently when I needed an enterprise level project, DNN has been FREE. What more can I ask for? What complaints do I truly have? Now that I see Wordpress's prices, I feel bad about complaining about the cost of ENT. It does say a lot for a corporation out to make money.
I mean my gosh.. I'm building a business on the same premise right now.. I'm creating lots of free stuff.. opening it up to the community, with the long-term goal to make money off of advertisers and premium features that have to be paid for.
Ultimately it must have a thriving community, and I think it does have one.
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Conclusion:
I want to make money. We all want to make money. I like money.. we all do. I like to count it, smell it, roll it in bundles with the big bills on the outside.. let some hang out of my pocket to show off.. haha .. no just kidding.
Anyway.. Wordpress is doing the same thing. You want to talk about big bucks.. look at their VIP prices if you want to pass out in shock. http://vip.wordpress.com
The community here is what has helped me the most though, and always has. One of which is Blanks.. who has spent several hours of his time and denied compensation for it. Now that says a lot.
There are 2 communities within DNN. 1. Faithful Participants 2. Scavengers
I hope that DNN always remembers the faithful participants and doesn't base their demeanor on the ones who don't appreciate what DNN has afforded us with. I'm not pointing at anyone with this statement either.
Alright.. I'm off to the office to build free stuff so I can build paid stuff later! I have to make it thrive within the community first so I can get advertisers and offer premium features later.. Can you blame me? I have to feed my family too.
- Patrick |
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Stephen Nill
Customers
Post Count:152
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| 12 Jan 2012 07:40 AM |
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For me, I just want to be able to move to the leading edge of social networking capability as rapidly as possible. If I'm reading Will right, he and DotNetNuke Corp. want to take us there in a big way; after all, they've identified social networking capability to be so important that it's going to be built into DotNetNuke. That speaks volumes. At this point I'd like to see us focus (whether it's this thread or another) on features, since Will is seeking our input.
In the meantime, I have to put my business first, of course, and so will continue to experiment with my WordPress test site to see how far I get in building a site comparable to the current DotNetNuke site. Perhaps my work on the WordPress platform in implementing social networking capability will help me with additional insights that would be useful in providing input here.
Anyway, can we focus on moving DotNetNuke to the leading edge of social networking capability? Or maybe start a thread that let's us do that? |
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Patrick
Registered Users
Post Count:87
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| 12 Jan 2012 07:49 AM |
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Posted By YodaRocks on 12 Jan 2012 08:40 AM
For me, I just want to be able to move to the leading edge of social networking capability as rapidly as possible. If I'm reading Will right, he and DotNetNuke Corp. want to take us there in a big way; after all, they've identified social networking capability to be so important that it's going to be built into DotNetNuke. That speaks volumes. At this point I'd like to see us focus (whether it's this thread or another) on features, since Will is seeking our input.
In the meantime, I have to put my business first, of course, and so will continue to experiment with my WordPress test site to see how far I get in building a site comparable to the current DotNetNuke site. Perhaps my work on the WordPress platform in implementing social networking capability will help me with additional insights that would be useful in providing input here.
Anyway, can we focus on moving DotNetNuke to the leading edge of social networking capability? Or maybe start a thread that let's us do that?
I'm totally on that bandwagon Yoda. Better than a shout box that produces nothing viable to work with. I'm going to compile a list of features that I feel are necessary and relevant to stay on the edge of social networking capabilities within DNN.
This thread needs to turn around.. Thanks for initiating a positive reinforcement.
Rock on Yoda!
- Patrick |
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Will Morgenweck
Forum Admin
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:7671
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| 12 Jan 2012 07:49 AM |
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Patrick & Steve,
Would either of you mind creating a new thread? I would really like to capture the feature related feedback.
Thanks,
Will |
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Will Morgenweck
Director of Product Management
DotNetNuke Corp.
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Will Morgenweck
Forum Admin
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:7671
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| 12 Jan 2012 07:51 AM |
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Anyway, can we focus on moving DotNetNuke to the leading edge of social networking capability? Or maybe start a thread that let's us do that? I really like this approach! |
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Will Morgenweck
Director of Product Management
DotNetNuke Corp.
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Patrick
Registered Users
Post Count:87
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| 12 Jan 2012 07:57 AM |
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I just started one in feedback and requests Will. Hopefully it'll be viral and without complaints.. focusing on what is needed. |
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