Stephen Nill
Customers
Post Count:152
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| 13 Dec 2011 06:43 PM |
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I just received an email promo from DotNetNuke Corporation making Active Social available with multi-year purchases of Professional or Enterprise Editions. I have relied for months on the representation that Active Social would be available as part of the Community Edition with the exception of the mail connector. Clarification would be appreciated.
Thank you.
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Jashan Chittesh
Customers
Post Count:40
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| 14 Dec 2011 12:22 AM |
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Same here. To be honest, I have to say I was really shocked when I read this email today. I hope it's just a misunderstanding! |
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Will Morgenweck
Forum Admin
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:7671
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| 14 Dec 2011 12:26 AM |
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I just received an email promo from DotNetNuke Corporation making Active Social available with multi-year purchases of Professional or Enterprise Editions. It's a marketing promotion. No different than Active Social still being available for purchase on Snowcovered. As a matter of fact, the promotion is actually carried out by providing the customer with a coupon to purchase Active Social through Snowcovered. This has no impact on anything that has been explained or discussed previously. |
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Will Morgenweck
Director of Product Management
DotNetNuke Corp.
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Jashan Chittesh
Customers
Post Count:40
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Cliff Hammock
Customers
Post Count:667
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| 14 Dec 2011 01:13 PM |
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Posted By Will Morgenweck on 14 Dec 2011 01:26 AM
I just received an email promo from DotNetNuke Corporation making Active Social available with multi-year purchases of Professional or Enterprise Editions.
It's a marketing promotion. No different than Active Social still being available for purchase on Snowcovered. As a matter of fact, the promotion is actually carried out by providing the customer with a coupon to purchase Active Social through Snowcovered. This has no impact on anything that has been explained or discussed previously.
I understand the marketing concept of bundling to increase the perceived
value. But don't they realize that in the end this type of marketing is
likely to just create ill will amongst anyone that actually buys this
deal thinking they are getting a great value, only to find that AS is
about to be free? You would think there are enough ill feelings in general around the AS product without trying to create more problems and misunderstandings. Can't resist the chance to ask if there are any updates on AS2.0? It would be a nice Christmas present! Or should we just stop asking about AS 2.0 and plan to wait until Q3 2012 for anything related to AS? |
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NFXBeats
Customers
Post Count:299
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| 14 Dec 2011 04:45 PM |
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likely to just create ill will amongst anyone that actually buys this deal thinking they are getting a great value, only to find that AS is about to be free? Or are we the ones that will be affected when we learn that it will NOT be free? I guess we just wait... |
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| Status: I'm no longer moderated. |
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Stephen Nill
Customers
Post Count:152
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| 14 Dec 2011 04:51 PM |
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Well, I realize now that I've ceded way too much control on my business to DotNetNuke Corporation. It's my own fault for being this vulnerable. So, I've been looking at new CMS options, and am very impressed by everything I'm reading about WordPress. It has what appears to be social networking capability (BuddyPress) that far exceeds anything available in the DotNetNuke world. I haven't yet decided to jump ship -- I've been a loyal DotNetNuke user since DNN 2 -- but the only person I should be mad with is me for not waking up sooner. Has anyone else been thinking along these lines? |
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Jeff Blanks
Customers
Post Count:386
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| 14 Dec 2011 06:56 PM |
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Something I really hate to admit as well. But I've briefly explored other options. Just havent' taken the time to do any testing with them.
I've already got too much invested into my project to look elsewhere. But for future projects, I've looked at a WordPress/BuddyPress combo along with a couple other asp.net CMS's and plan to get my feet wet in order make evaluations on future projects. Though all my projects are usually small with exception to my current community website I've been working on for way too long.
Like you, I've been around since the 3.x days. Have tried some CMS's that others have probably never heard of like Soop Portal (still around today and is classic asp) comes to mind. I've tried some old php CMS's too that were based around forums, and that other one, Rainbow Portal Ithink?
There are some other asp.net's that are sprouting up too that look interesting.
I'm going to continue to work out my current project (and maybe others) and see where the DNN road takes me for now, but I'll be watching closely for any detours that have smoother paved roads if I feel like I'm running over too many pot holes. |
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Cheers! Jeff
@northeastok | @jeffblanks | My Blog |
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 28 Dec 2011 01:14 AM |
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So, I've been looking at new CMS options, and am very impressed by everything I'm reading about WordPress. It has what appears to be social networking capability (BuddyPress) that far exceeds anything available in the DotNetNuke world. I haven't yet decided to jump ship -- I've been a loyal DotNetNuke user since DNN 2 -- but the only person I should be mad with is me for not waking up sooner. Has anyone else been thinking along these lines? That's what I switched to last year and couldn't be happier. I now feel like I am in complete control, as I should be, since I am the one spending the money on software. |
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DanielH
Customers
Post Count:104
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| 10 Jan 2012 04:54 PM |
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I have been working with WP for the last few years as well and love it. I typically use WP for my front end marketing stuff and have my paid communities behind DNN, it blows away DNN in every single way except security...people will hack your site in nothing flat if you are not on top of your game, but its worth it to me. I am currently rebuilding my paid communities for WP as well and looking forward to moving away. There are a few things that I still really like about DNN though...its membership/role/security layer is still I think the best out there...I catch myself all the time saying 'I wish WP had that thing where DNN does...'. Another thing I wish I could find is more rapid development tools like xmodPro in that space. Between XMod Pro and Datasprings stuff, I can build almost anything I want with no code at all. |
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Dan
www.MarathonNation.us
www.EnduranceNation.us
www.ReThinkAcademy.com
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Will Morgenweck
Forum Admin
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:7671
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| 10 Jan 2012 05:52 PM |
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I actually saw a great blog post today that talks about all the things that WordPress is not. http://kevinjohngallagher.com/2012/...-building/ At the end of the day everyone tries to makes the choice that is best for them. Just like choosing a smartphone. |
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Will Morgenweck
Director of Product Management
DotNetNuke Corp.
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DanielH
Customers
Post Count:104
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Patrick
Registered Users
Post Count:87
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| 10 Jan 2012 07:19 PM |
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Personally I think Wordpress is 100% suitable for writers/bloggers, as its original purpose. The CMS is good, but DNN is MUCH more flexible.. and much more advanced.
As far as custom development and much more advanced web applications, DNN is #1 for ASP.net
I was beginning to question DNN due to it's "bloat" but with the recent changes in 6.+ this seems to be resolving and just moving in a much better direction.
My only complaint is the price for Enterprise.. but I paid it anyway.. Unless you're using Sharepoint, Content Staging is the only real plus to this. There are some additional features that are available in ENT and PRO but the community platform can achieve just about anything.
Content Staging in DNN ENT is nice.. and takes all the hard work out of migrating to the server.
Just an opinion.
- Patrick |
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 01:04 AM |
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Posted By DanielH on 10 Jan 2012 05:54 PM
Between XMod Pro and Datasprings stuff, I can build almost anything I want with no code at all.
Try using Gravity Forms and a new plugin called Types and Views. With the two you can practically do anything with WP with very little coding. You can easily create custom post types, taxonomies, add any custom fields you want and then create views of your data. Gravity forms makes it really easy to insert/update records. You just need to download a free plugin for gravity and you can access your custom post types to insert data. Gravity even has an add-on to create WP user accounts in their developer package. |
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 01:27 AM |
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As far as that guys article goes. WordPress is not a good solution for a large company with many users who need a fully fledged CMS. However, a solution of that type generally costs tens of thousands of dollars per year. If you have the budget then go for it.
On the other hand, if you are running a smaller site along with a few other people, have a limited budget and don't have extensive needs like document management system etc, you won't get better value than WordPress in my opinion. Especially if you don't mind doing most of the development yourself and you are not trying to hand over a complicated system to an end-user.
Furthermore, since there are so many developers the cost of getting some help or something developed is really low. Not to mention that there are tons of new plugins that come out all the time, mostly for free, or a small fee if there is a commercial version.
I'd rather go this route now and once the site takes off and there is a good amount of money for development available then have my own custom solution tailored exactly for my needs. |
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Stephen Nill
Customers
Post Count:152
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| 11 Jan 2012 05:55 AM |
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I think DotNetNuke, for all of the headaches I've endured with it since 2.x, is a great platform. I have a tremendous amount of time (years and years) and money invested in our DotNetNuke site, so it is not trivial matter even to think of going to another platform.
But I am considering it, and have set up a test site for WordPress/BuddyPress that I'm using to ascend the learning curve. My goal is to see how far I can get essentially duplicating my current DotNetNuke site. I have a long way to go but so far I really like what I'm seeing.
I'll be perfectly honest here. For me, the problem has been the "black box" that Active Social development has become--though it's never seemed to me to be especially transparent, even before it was acquired by DotNetNuke Corporation. Its continued development seems to have been arrested or at least delayed; or, if it is taking place at a good pace, I have no way of knowing because there is so little communication taking place about its future. (If I'm missing some information source, someone please point me to it!) In what is supposed to be an open source project, I am concerned that there is so little transparancy around the project. How can I stake my business on that? It would be foolish to do so.
On top of that, it appears that if I do not purchase another year of support, I will not be allowed to have the latest build of Active Social (my posts to this form on this have gone unanswered). Yet Active Social is going to be released at some unknown point to the community as free and open source. Meanwhile, I can't upgrade my DotNetNuke version from 5.6.5 to 6.1.2 because I don't have that latest build. I have spent considerable money on Active Social over the years, and feel I'm being kicked around.
Because my business is centered on two things, community and publishing, to stay with DotNetNuke, whose only viable social network solution is Active Social, I have to have blind faith that Active Social is going to be the best product for our users' needs down the road. When I compare Active Social to Buddy Press (and another WP alternative plugin, for that matter), Active Social seems miles behind. Moreover, there seems to be a very active developer community surrounding WP and, to the point, BuddyPress; nothing like that exists for Active Social, since Active Social was (is?) only developed by one person.
So, for now I'll persist with DotNetNuke/Active Social, and, if asked, I would more than happy to provide feedback on Active Social development. In the meantime, though, I'll be continuing to experiment with WordPress to see if it will be a viable alternative. So far, it looks like it will be.
Steve |
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Ben - DotNetNuke
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:1643
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| 11 Jan 2012 08:19 AM |
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Hi Steve, this is off topic, but you do have access to download the latest version from the downloads section here. |
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DanielH
Customers
Post Count:104
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Stephen Nill
Customers
Post Count:152
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| 11 Jan 2012 09:17 AM |
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Posted By Ben - DotNetNuke on 11 Jan 2012 09:19 AM
Hi Steve, this is off topic, but you do have access to download the latest version from the downloads section here.
Ben, thanks for letting me know. It was frustrating believing, incorrectly as it turns out, that I was unable to get this download without renewing support.
I should add, that you gave me excellent help during the term of my support contract--going above and beyond the call of duty on more than one occasion, especially in helping with a SQL script I needed to automatically set subscriber options in Groups. Despite my frustrations, should I again need a higher level of support than I can find on the forums, I will not hesitate to re-up, though, again, it would be strange doing so not knowing when Active Social will be released to the community.
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Patrick
Registered Users
Post Count:87
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| 11 Jan 2012 10:12 AM |
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~clears throat
I think everyone should be very careful when considering moving their development to Wordpress. First of all, let me say that Wordpress by far has much more of the marketshare than DNN. However, this does not mean that it's better.
I'm about to frazzle some people with this statement, and it's almost exciting to bring it up! Hopefully it'll bring an early morning chuckle to some.
-=-=-= I'm a MAC guy. I can't stand PCs 99% of the time =-=-=-
Even Apple admits that Microsoft are database gurus, and I love the Windows Database/Server functionality, along with being more familiar with ASP.NET and Visual Studio, but as far as functionality goes, every single one of my MACs run flawlessly, and have for years. So why am I saying this? Apple has a very small percentage of the marketshare.. What is it? 6%? Linux 4%? Microsoft has the rest? Something like that..
I'm not naive, and I try to pay close attention to development road maps. I guess I see a correlation between DNN/MAC and WORDPRESS/MICROSOFT.
Dotnetnuke has continued to absorb amazing functionality throughout the years that is delivered right out of the box. THIS MEANS that as future releases come out, those core modules/functionalities that DNN has absorbed are FORCED to stay up-to-date. DNN made some mistakes in the beginning, namely throwing out releases too quickly, but have you noticed the upgrade process is getting better and better? It's 3rd party module integrations that cause problems.. most of the time. We need to be reminded that the Community Edition of Dotnetnuke is packed full of powerful features, and it's absolutely free!
Wordpress might have a massive community and a lot of cheap developers, but it has no solid core. It has tender flesh still.. It might be easier to setup, cheaper to install, but I would almost bet money that the platform will flip flop back and forth for years, continue to have weak releases and patches, and people will be reminded that it is what it is.. an excellent CMS blogging platform that is "still" evolving into a CMS website development platform.
I am not worried about Active Social's growth, simply because DNNCorp is prideful. That sounds like an attack but it isn't. DNNCorp has absorbed AS and AF, and there's no way they are going to let it drop off the planet. We just happen to be in the middle of transformation. DNN Corp. is correcting their previous mistakes of throwing out early releases, and it's obvious that whatever is baked into the core of DNN will be taken care of. My only disappointment has been e-commerce.. which I'm sure most would agree.
Security:
Using the same correlation between Apple and Microsoft, look at which platform is exploited by hackers. Wordpress cannot even hold a candle next to DNN's security and authentication structure - there is no comparison.
Extensions:
Wordpress plugins/extensions seem to be less business minded, whereas DNN offers a much better array of web based business solutions. DNN's 3rd party developers have several rock solid professional businesses minded teams that have wrapped their entire business around DNN. (ie: Data Springs, Mandeeps, DNNDev, etc.)
Support:
DNN offers "Professional and Elite" versions of their framework which comes with web/phone support. The PRO and ENT are thoroughly tested and have outstanding quality control. Wordpress has nothing of the sort.
What I expect to see:
DNN Corp keeps their eyes open for superior module development, and when it arises they absorb it into the core if possible.
Granted, there has been a lack of communication on the forums, and the response rate has been limited. I can honestly see both sides of the argument. I get frustrated when my questions aren't answered in a timely fashion, yet at the same time I suffer through it because I'm confident that the new releases will just get more and more mature, offering a continued promising future with DNN.
If I'm wrong on any points, I'm always open for correction.. Doesn't bother me a bit. Refine away.. it just helps me grow in knowledge.
- Patrick
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Stephen Nill
Customers
Post Count:152
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| 11 Jan 2012 11:28 AM |
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Patrick, I really appreciate your thoughtful contribution to the dialog. For me, the challenge isn't with DotNetNuke, but rather what I can do with it in terms of social networking. It is here that I look at WordPress, with its multi-developer BuddyPress project, and think, gee, I can't do most of that on DotNetNuke because the core does not have such functions, and the available commercial modules don't either. In fact, WordPress has such a rich array of plugins relating to social networking functionality that it is difficult even to know where to start!
Since I have staked my business on social networking, it's terribly important that whatever platform I use, I have the capability of moving the social networking functions forward so that they are at least on a par with what the major sites out there can and are doing (LinkedIn and Facebook come to mind). I also want to see the DotNetNuke developer community given an early opportunity to build modules to dramatically extend the functionality of Active Social-centered social networking on the DotNetNuke platform -- in my view, this is the best way give us a rich array of options in setting up social networking on our sites. For that reason I'm anxious for the day when the code is released to the community, which would also help those of us who would want to create custom solutions around Active Social (if that's what it will be called).
I will definitely do everything I can to support future development of social networking on the DotNetNuke platform, so I hope that my comments are taken in the spirit offered -- to make things better for all of us. |
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 11:50 AM |
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DNN offers "Professional and Elite" versions of their framework which comes with web/phone support. The PRO and ENT are thoroughly tested and have outstanding quality control. Wordpress has nothing of the sort. LOL! Well of course it doesn't, because WP is truly open source software. WordPress is not a corporation, it's an open source community. How it evolves in terms of software is being driven by the developers of the community, not by a corporation. You talk about DNN support but what you don't mention is that it costs a minimum of $5,000 a year to get that support, it's not free. If you want paid support from a company specializing in WordPress development you can easily get that if you want to pay. |
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 12:00 PM |
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Wordpress plugins/extensions seem to be less business minded, whereas DNN offers a much better array of web based business solutions. DNN's 3rd party developers have several rock solid professional businesses minded teams that have wrapped their entire business around DNN. (ie: Data Springs, Mandeeps, DNNDev, etc.) You are not speaking from a place of knowledge and I will be happy to correct you as you have requested. I bought DNN modules from most of these companies and many are just small companies with one or two developers. Some of their coding is not great either and I have seen them being criticized before, not referring to Chad Nash, but some of the others. As far as I recall, one of the only decent DNN photo album modules was developed and supported by one guy in Asia who often didn't respond to user questions on his forum. WordPress has some small shops too, but some are really well put together like Woo Themes with a whole team of developers and excellent support. There are amateur WP plugins, but there are some very good professional ones too. |
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Patrick
Registered Users
Post Count:87
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| 11 Jan 2012 12:48 PM |
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Posted By SilverSurfer on 11 Jan 2012 12:50 PM
DNN offers "Professional and Elite" versions of their framework which comes with web/phone support. The PRO and ENT are thoroughly tested and have outstanding quality control. Wordpress has nothing of the sort.
LOL! Well of course it doesn't, because WP is truly open source software. WordPress is not a corporation, it's an open source community. How it evolves in terms of software is being driven by the developers of the community, not by a corporation.
You talk about DNN support but what you don't mention is that it costs a minimum of $5,000 a year to get that support, it's not free. If you want paid support from a company specializing in WordPress development you can easily get that if you want to pay.
In regards to the cost, you are correct.. it's very expensive. In regards to me mentioning it, I complained about the price in my previous post. Does the core team for Wordpress offer support other than their VIP services? Last time I checked it was around $15,000 per/year for a VIP Support package through Wordpress. Is there something available other than this service from the "core team" ? I looked at their other premium services and the numbers were terrifying. Like, $5,000 for one support incident.. |
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Patrick
Registered Users
Post Count:87
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| 11 Jan 2012 12:51 PM |
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Posted By SilverSurfer on 11 Jan 2012 01:00 PM
Wordpress plugins/extensions seem to be less business minded, whereas DNN offers a much better array of web based business solutions. DNN's 3rd party developers have several rock solid professional businesses minded teams that have wrapped their entire business around DNN. (ie: Data Springs, Mandeeps, DNNDev, etc.)
You are not speaking from a place of knowledge and I will be happy to correct you as you have requested. I bought DNN modules from most of these companies and many are just small companies with one or two developers. Some of their coding is not great either and I have seen them being criticized before, not referring to Chad Nash, but some of the others. As far as I recall, one of the only decent DNN photo album modules was developed and supported by one guy in Asia who often didn't respond to user questions on his forum.
WordPress has some small shops too, but some are really well put together like Woo Themes with a whole team of developers and excellent support. There are amateur WP plugins, but there are some very good professional ones too.
I'm possibly speaking from out-dated knowledge, so I appreciate your correction. And heck no I don't mind... I love to learn as much as possible. It's been about a year since I've dug into Wordpress, and there was an array of plugins for it but document management related solutions, and other forms similar I was unable to find.
- Patrick |
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 01:34 PM |
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Your info is very outdated. Years ago I started out with WordPress but then switched to using DNN because of the fact that the DNN modules were more commercially robust. Back then with WP you never knew if a module was going to be supported in the future because there were very few commercial offerings.
However this all changed about 2 years ago and now there are so many shops now that offer and support commercial WP themes and applications.
I have since moved away from DNN and back to WP because of how DNN corp has taken over modules like AS and it's no longer open source like it used to be. In other words, the development is being driven by DNN corp, not by the community.
Case in point, AS development has now slowed so it can be incorporated into DNN core and my prediction, which I made almost a year ago, is that many features are going to require that you purchase the PRO or Enterprise version.
It's just common sense. No corporation is going to invest many thousands of dollars just so they can give it away for free.
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 01:46 PM |
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PS Document Management is not something that WordPress does well, but how many people here have that as their primary need? My needs are to publish information like news and blogs, and to have a community built around that, which is what WordPress does quite easily.
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Will Morgenweck
Forum Admin
DotNetNuke Staff
Post Count:7671
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| 11 Jan 2012 01:58 PM |
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Case in point, AS development has now slowed so it can be incorporated into DNN core and my prediction, which I made almost a year ago, is that many features are going to require that you purchase the PRO or Enterprise version.
It's just common sense. No corporation is going to invest many thousands of dollars just so they can give it away for free. Just so that your "prediction" doesn't further spread incorrect information, I have to say that your statements are 100% incorrect. As I've stated before, what is in AS today will be in the core. As a matter of fact, we are doing more than just integrating Active Social. We have made numerous enhancements to the existing functionality. |
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Will Morgenweck
Director of Product Management
DotNetNuke Corp.
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Patrick
Registered Users
Post Count:87
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| 11 Jan 2012 02:26 PM |
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Hey Will can one of those enhancements to the functionality be control over notification alerts?
Here's an example:
John posts on Jill's Journal. Jill gets notified and comments on John's post, which is on her journal. John doesn't get notified of Jill's comment.
The only way John will get future notifications is if he also made a "comment" instead of the initial post.
It would be great to have this type of flexibility right from within the control panel, being able to select the levels of notifications.
This is actually really important to me, and helps a site really grow socially and sustain interaction.
Thanks!
- Patrick |
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SilverSurfer
Customers
Post Count:173
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| 11 Jan 2012 03:03 PM |
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Posted By Will Morgenweck on 11 Jan 2012 02:58 PM
Case in point, AS development has now slowed so it can be incorporated into DNN core and my prediction, which I made almost a year ago, is that many features are going to require that you purchase the PRO or Enterprise version.
It's just common sense. No corporation is going to invest many thousands of dollars just so they can give it away for free.
Just so that your "prediction" doesn't further spread incorrect information, I have to say that your statements are 100% incorrect. As I've stated before, what is in AS today will be in the core. As a matter of fact, we are doing more than just integrating Active Social. We have made numerous enhancements to the existing functionality.
What I predicted is that you will not get all the functionality of AS in the Community Edition. By that I mean all the possible features and options that currently exist in AS at the time of it's release and at all times during it's development cycle, not just what is present in AS as of today. Feel free to correct me if I am I wrong. |
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